A 'birth keeper' who charged a pregnant woman $6,000 before the mum-to-be died in childbirth had a public meltdown when confronted by the Daily Mail about her alleged role in the tragedy.
Mother-of-four Emily Lal may eventually have no choice but to explain the circumstances leading up to the death of her former client, wellness influencer Stacey Warnecke.
But it was abundantly clear on Thursday that she isn't rushing to tell her side of the story.
After refusing to answer the coroner's questions just days earlier, she lost it when the Mail approached her for comment at her home – even accusing us of putting her in danger.
Warnecke, 30, died in hospital on September 29, 2025, from complications of a postpartum haemorrhage, several hours after giving birth to her son Axel at home without medical assistance.
A phone call between Ms Warnecke and Lal was played in the Coroners Court of Victoria last Monday, in which the expectant mum spoke about Lal looking out for her during childbirth.
That conversation could now see Ms Lal charged with perjury and other offences related to her role as a so-called 'birth keeper'.
Counsel assisting the coroner, Rachel Ellyard, told the inquest the recording 'sharply contradicted' evidence Lal gave at an earlier hearing.
The court heard Lal had been asked to return to the inquest and answer more questions, but she refused.
Emily Lal had a meltdown when approached by the Daily Mail on Thursday
On Thursday, the Daily Mail spotted Lal outside her Mill Park home, north of Melbourne, as her children played outside on the street.
Positioned down the road, freelance photographer Stephen Cook fired off several frames of Lal before she picked up her children and rushed them inside.
What followed was a bizarre and somewhat dangerous game of cat-and-mouse in which Lal had a postie call the police.
The Mail stands by its decision to approach Lal at her home given the public nature of the coronial inquest and the seriousness of the matter.
Lal herself is looking down the barrel of a 15-year jail stint if convicted of perjuring herself in the witness box at the inquest into Ms Warnecke's death.
Ms Ellyard had urged Coroner Therese McCarthy to refer Lal to the Director of Public Prosecutions over possible perjury and other offences.
The Mail was unable to even approach Lal before she returned to her vehicle and sped off, leaving her young children inside the home.
Her husband was observed leaving the address earlier in the day.
Lal is pictured outside the Coroner's Court of Victoria in June. She has been accused of lying to the coroner with her evidence
Lal proceeded to drive her red SUV up over the gutter onto the grass of a nearby park where she revved the engine towards the Mail's reporter, who was in his vehicle.
Moments later, she was on the move, driving her car in the direction of the journalist at speed before swerving and barrelling down the street.
Cook, a former editor of the New Zealand Herald, then followed Lal in the hope of explaining to her that he simply wished to discuss the unanswered questions stemming from the coronial inquest.
Within seconds, Cook had caught up and found Lal pulled into a side street, where she appeared to be waiting for him.
Lal then drove up behind his car, revving her engine and advancing closer.
'We often deal with angry people but this was pretty confronting,' Cook recounted.
'All I was trying to do was give the woman a chance to have her say and defend herself against what have been some pretty serious allegations [at the inquest].
'She was clearly under stress and wanted absolutely no part of it.'
It is not suggested Lal was deliberately driving towards the cameraman.
Stacey Warnecke, 30, died in hospital after choosing a 'free birth' at home
Baby Axel (pictured) survived the birth. He is pictured with dad Nathan
To avoid the situation escalating further, Cook pulled over and approached Lal, but again she was having none of it.
She waved down a postie, urging her to call the police. 'I'm in danger,' Lal shrieked.
'She wasn't in danger. I was,' Cook told the Mail.
In the recorded conversation played to the coroner, Ms Warnecke told Lal she did not want tests and wanted to 'cruise along', with a home birth supported by her husband Nathan and, she hoped, Lal.
Ms Warnecke was seven weeks pregnant with her first child at the time and told Lal she was 'petrified to go to a hospital'.
Unlike midwives, a regulated profession, 'birth keepers' are not clinically trained.
Lal has been accused of perjury and faces possible charges
'I envision having, like, that wise woman, I look at you in the eyes and like, "Am I okay?"' Ms Warnecke told Lal in the 30-minute phone call on January 31, 2025.
'And you're like, "Yeah, you're good, you're good". Like, "Am I dying or am I right?"'
Lal had told the inquest she was a supportive friend rather than a source of medical guidance.
Ms Ellyard said the recording showed otherwise, with Lal providing specific guidance, including about medical matters.
The inquest heard Lal saw one of her underlying roles as to 'strengthen and fortify a woman's reason for birthing at home, so that she wouldn't change her mind, however tough things got'.
'I use these words advisedly,' Ms Ellyard said.
'Your honour might take the view that Ms Lal saw her role as to groom her clients into being strong enough to resist the temptation to seek medical help during labour, to seek pain relief during labour, to go to hospital during labour.'
Ms Ellyard said the recording showed Lal regarded a hospital transfer as 'a failure of someone who hadn't done the work', and that Lal claimed she could tell a woman who was properly worried about her baby from one who was 'just having a hard time'.
She also said Lal had offered to train a woman's partner to resist the urge to help her.
'She wasn't offering to be Stacey's friend,' Ms Ellyard said. 'She wasn't offering just to be a comforting presence.'
Ms Ellyard said the coroner could conclude that Lal was 'seeking to groom Stacey in that conversation'.
She told the court Ms Warnecke had followed Lal on Instagram for two years and already had a very clear view that freebirth – an intentional choice to give birth without medical intervention – was right for her.
The conversation, she said, 'wasn't a balanced conversation about the pros and cons of different approaches'.
In the recording, Lal quoted $6,000 for a package covering antenatal sessions, birth support and six weeks of postpartum care.
But she told Ms Warnecke she might not even make it to the birth.
'I'll prepare the two of you to birth on your own,' she said, adding that she did her best to be there but births sometimes happened faster than expected.
She also told her about a client whose labour lasted five days and said: 'I'm not going to be there for five.'
Ms Ellyard said Ms Warnecke and another woman in Lal's circle had discussed paying for her services and their disappointment when she was not available.
'They weren't paying $6,000 to Ms Lal just so that she would be their friend,' she said.
Emily Lal was asked to return to answer questions in court, but she refused
The inquest heard a pathologist found Ms Warnecke's cause of death was postpartum haemorrhage 'in the setting of a free birth'.
The inquest heard Ms Warnecke bled until her heart failed, with her uterus so exhausted through prolonged labour that it could not contract after the birth to stop the bleeding.
'She did not die of a rare embolism. She did not die of anything unforeseen,' Ms Ellyard said.
'She died of a postpartum haemorrhage.'
She said Ms Warnecke had a long first stage and a prolonged second stage of labour, which raised the risk of haemorrhage – the most common complication of childbirth.
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The inquest heard that while clinicians in hospital anticipate it, at home there was no one with the means to stop it.
Ms Ellyard said Ms Warnecke would not have died had she had access to even a midwife.
'Women like Stacey, who are otherwise healthy, do not die in hospital of childbirth. They don't,' she said.
She told the court the maternal death rate in high-income countries was three in 100,000, compared with 900 in 100,000 among women who refuse care.
'300 times more likely to die in childbirth if you are in a country like South Sudan, or if you are a woman in a high-income country who makes the choice to not accept medical care,' Ms Ellyard said.
Ms Ellyard said that even if Ms Warnecke's wish to give birth at her own pace and without intervention 'had been respected exactly as it was', the presence of a midwife who could respond would have saved her.
Coroner McCarthy will hand down her findings at a date to be fixed.
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