Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and “State of the Union” host Dana Bash clashed Sunday during an at-times-heated discussion of studies on vaccines and autism and the need to “trust the experts.”
During a Friday cabinet meeting, President Donald Trump pressed Kennedy about investigating whether certain vaccines are linked to the neurodevelopmental disorder — which impairs social interaction and can lead to focused interests and differences in sensory processing. Bash pressed Kennedy, claiming other studies had debunked claims that vaccines caused autism. (RELATED: ‘I’ve Had Enough, Thank You Darling’: Trump Walks Out On TV Interview)
“Now, have you talked to [Trump] about medical research that have studied this for 25 years and found no link between autism and vaccines? And just that — this is my question here, because I don’t want to litigate that, my question is … because you are HHS secretary now — why not study what could cause autism, which scientists do believe starts with fetal brain development?” Bash asked. “Why not do some studies on that … — since you’re an environmental lawyer — whether there are environmental factors that go into contributing to a predisposed genetic situation?”
“We’re doing all those things. And that’s one of the ways that we found Tylenol,” Kennedy responded. “There’s 73 studies out that link Tylenol exposure during later pregnancy and during the perinatal period to autism onset. But you are wrong when you say that this issue has been studied. It has been studied. And you’re rolling your eyes, Dana, but this is another example—”
“I am, because I don’t want to have you use our air to say this,” Bash responded. “There have been more than 40 studies involving 5.6 million people to conclude there is no link between vaccines and autism. This is the head of the Committee of Infectious Diseases for the American Academy of Pediatrics.”
WATCH:
No studies have shown a link between vaccines and autism, according to the Mayo Clinic.
“And now let me tell you what the Institute of Medicine says— which is the National Academy of Sciences, which is the ultimate arbiter on vaccine safety in which it does not have an interest in this debate,” Kennedy said. “It says that none of the eight vaccines that are administered during the first six months of life have ever been studied for relationship to autism. It found two studies, one on the DTP [named to protect against three infectious diseases in humans: diphtheria (a bacterial infection), tetanus (lockjaw), and pertussis (whooping cough)] vaccine that show that it does cause autism, and one on the hepatitis B vaccine that again suggests that it does cause autism.”
“I’m not trying to link autism to anything,” Kennedy added.
“I am frustrated,” Bash later said. “The reason I’m frustrated is because I— you are the HHS secretary, and you are talking about things that lead to vaccine hesitancy in this country. And it is something that causes problems for people, when there is not anything—”
During Kenendy’s 22-minute appearance, he and Bash also clashed over the performance of Dr. Anthony Fauci — who took the Fifth over 100 times during a Senate hearing Wednesday — during which he compared Bash to a parrot.
“Let me ask you something,” Kennedy asked Bash. “Do you see your job as ending vaccine hesitancy, or do you see your job as telling the truth to the American people?”
“I see my job as telling the truth,” the host replied. “And the truth is that there is study after study after study. It’s one of the most studied things out there in science.”
“You’re repeating it like a parrot,” Kennedy said. “You’re repeating it like a parrot.”
“So are you,” said Bash.
“All you know how to do is repeat things that people told you and say, ‘Trust the experts,’” Kennedy later responded. “Now we know that Anthony Fauci, who was the expert, was lying about everything, about masks, about the social distancing, about natural immunity, about the transmission from the vaccine, about the source of COVID. He was lying, and you were punishing people for not trusting the experts. And now you’re rolling out the experts again to talk about something that you have no personal knowledge of.”
“Well, guess what? That is my job to talk to people,” the host stated.
“Your job is to tell the truth to the American public and to maintain a posture of fierce skepticism toward government authority,” Kennedy replied.
“Am I allowed to talk?” Bash asked. “Yes, yes. And my job is to get as much information as I can.”
After Kennedy and Bash continued to clash over Fauci and COVID, Kennedy discussed efforts to address processed and “ultra-processed” foods, which was a priority of the Make America Healthy Again movement.
“I’m sorry that this turned into a very contentious conversation, and my job is to try to get the best information out there,” Bash said as the segment ended.
“Dana Bash is a veteran journalist who conducted a newsmaking interview with Secretary Kennedy in which he stated that he supports parents getting their children vaccinated against measles and addressed President Trump’s push for further study into autism and vaccines,” a CNN spokesperson told the Daily Caller News Foundation in a statement. “Asking tough, substantive questions to those in power is the job of every journalist, and Dana did hers incredibly well today.We stand behind Dana, her reporting, and CNN’s overall coverage of the COVID-19 pandemic.”
Kennedy did not immediately respond to a request for comment from the DCNF.
Editor’s note: This report was updated with a comment from CNN, as well as additional details.
