"The church is growing in South America and Africa, but where the money is, the money’s in the world’s largest economy and that is the United States of America."
Posobiec started on the broader financial context, noting that despite the Vatican’s vast property holdings, its liquidity is in decline. "One of the other big pieces that came out, that’s starting to come out of this reporting… is the state of the financial affairs of the Vatican," Posobiec said. "Now, a lot of people say the Vatican is so rich, look at all the churches and real estate, yes, but the liquidity is the problem, and the deconsecration and selling off of churches is going on all throughout the United States and major cities all over the place. It's because the coffers are low. Why are the coffers low? It’s simple, the pews are empty. The collection baskets are light."
"They’re all coming in light, so yes, just because you have all this stuff doesn’t mean you’re getting the revenue that you need," he continued. "One of the concerns that a lot of people have… is the understanding, the church is growing in South America and Africa, but where the money is, the money’s in the world’s largest economy and that is the United States of America."
Posobiec also said that the Vatican’s reported financial instability may have influenced its relationship with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and with American Catholics under previous Pope Francis. "Those big dollar, high-dollar American Catholics—which is also part of the underwriting of the CCP deal—is the CCP was bailing out the Vatican under Francis," he said. "So, is the choice of the first American Pope, is it because of this return to tradition as part of the outward signs are, or are there elements here of a hope within the Vatican of accessing those American high-dollar donors?"
Dr. Taylor Marshall responded by highlighting the longstanding tension between Pope Francis and the American Catholic community.
"Francis said he was honored that he was being attacked by the Americans," Marshall said. "There was an open rivalry between American Catholics and Pope Francis that started probably somewhere in the year 2015, 2016. That friction, that rivalry continued all the way up until this day."
Marshall emphasized that the American church’s financial weight could not be ignored. "Yeah, if you belittle and you drive away the American Catholics—the biggest countries of Catholics—Brazil, the United States—if you look at, in terms of wealth and donation, it’s the United States of America."
"Did it play a part? Undoubtedly, it played a part. Jesus Christ our Lord, in the gospels, they talk about the bag or the purse that they carried with the money that Christ lived on for his ministry," he continued. "There’s always been a donation-based part of the ministry of Jesus Christ and of the church, ever since AD 33. That’s part of it."
Marshall suggested that Vatican leadership must seriously assess the consequences of alienating American Catholics. "You have to also look at the books and say, ‘can we balance our books? Are we running a deficit? And is offending and isolating the American Catholics a good strategy moving forward for another 10 years?’"
"All the cardinals have to look at that and say that is a bad strategy, you cannot continue to push away the Catholic Church in the United States of America," he said. "So I definitely think \[it’s] part of the strategy here, and as an American Catholic, as a traditional Catholic, I welcome it."
"I want to see the Pope love all peoples, and I felt during Pope Francis that he loved everybody except for Americans," Marshall concluded. "He had denigrating things to say about Trump and America, denigrating things to say about our policy, he wrote a document trying to correct JD Vance but he never tried to correct Joe Biden or the other nations who were doing nefarious things. So, it just seemed that Pope Francis had it out for the Americans."
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