Sunday, 15 June 2025

Video: 1.5 Million Dead – Is This Ukraine’s ‘Victory’? Col. Douglas Macgregor


In the video below, Col. Douglas Macgregor speaks with Borschy on Russia’s Special Military Operation in Ukraine.

Col. Macgregor noted,

“I don’t really see much evidence for a peace process that involves the United States or its so-called NATO allies.”

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Following is a transcript generated by Youtube

0:00

Ukraine um what do you make out of the

0:02

most recent development in what I still

0:05

hope is a peace process but it might

0:08

actually be unraveling in front of our

0:10

eyes

0:12

yeah I I don’t really see much evidence

0:15

for a peace process that involves the

0:18

United States or its so-called NATO

0:20

allies i don’t see much happening there

0:22

i I think what we we have to keep in

0:24

mind and we don’t understand this in the

0:26

West at all is that the guiding

0:29

strategic imperative for President Putin

0:31

from the very outset from February

0:34

2022 until now has been to scrupulously

0:37

avoid war with the United States and

0:40

NATO that’s something he doesn’t want

0:42

and never has wanted and so he’s worked

0:45

to try and contain the conflict keep it

0:48

from spreading and try to prevent the

0:51

Europeans from foolishing intervening in

0:53

it now the difference between Ukraine

0:56

today and the Ukrainian war with Russia

0:58

today and what it was in February 2022

1:02

is very important in at the time that

1:05

Russia entered eastern Ukraine for the

1:08

purpose as they as we know of uh

1:11

essentially ending the oppression of the

1:13

Russians that lived there stop the

1:15

discrimination the maltreatment and in

1:18

fact the killings of Russian citizens

1:20

going on in Luhansk Donetsk

1:24

Uh Russia at that point was actually not

1:27

very strong it it had a modest military

1:30

establishment it could intervene in

1:32

eastern Ukraine but it certainly wasn’t

1:35

capable of doing a great deal more than

1:37

essentially intervening and sending

1:40

quote unquote a signal that Russia was

1:42

serious about its

1:44

intentions that has changed russia is

1:47

now arguably the leading certainly army

1:51

ground force in the world let there be

1:54

no mistake about it and they have taken

1:57

some casualties but nothing compared

1:59

with what has happened to the Ukrainians

2:01

and I would estimate perhaps 100 to

2:04

120,000 Russian soldiers have been

2:06

killed and when I say Russian that

2:09

includes obviously Chetchin forces that

2:11

have joined into this battle and also

2:13

Luhanska Donetsk veterans people that

2:16

have fought there to begin with with the

2:17

Russians against Ukrainians but the

2:20

Ukrainians have now lost 1.5 million

2:22

people

2:24

russia has developed a a marvelous

2:28

24-hour a day 7-day a week manufacturing

2:31

base capable of meeting all the demands

2:34

of the battlefield from standard

2:36

munitions for artillery all the way up

2:38

to and including sophisticated drones

2:41

missiles rockets and so forth in other

2:44

words Russia’s on a war fitting war

2:46

footing russia has effectively won the

2:49

fight on the battlefield and is now po

2:52

poised to complete its destruction of

2:55

its enemy let’s be frank that’s where

2:57

they are and the Ukrainians are in very

3:00

very bad shape each day is worse more

3:02

people are being killed it’s very

3:04

reminiscent of what it was like to be in

3:06

the German military in the last 6 to 8

3:09

months of World War II that’s when the

3:11

Germans by the way took most of their

3:13

casualties and people don’t realize that

3:16

uh but when you look at that war that’s

3:18

it’s very similar to the the collapse of

3:20

the German armed forces and the and the

3:22

Germans did not completely collapse all

3:24

at once they had to be driven out and

3:27

they certainly fought as they retreated

3:29

and withdrew but the point is that’s

3:32

what we have right now with the

3:33

Ukrainians now the difference is I think

3:35

things have changed inside Ukraine we’re

3:38

now hearing that there are large numbers

3:40

of Ukrainian organizations you could

3:42

call them gangs whatever you want to

3:44

call them who are now essentially

3:47

obstructing the forcible recruitment of

3:51

Ukrainians into the army in other words

3:54

they’re not allowing either old men

3:56

young men or any men that can be found

3:58

on the streets to be picked up shoved

3:59

into vans and sent off for a couple of

4:02

weeks of orientation and then killed on

4:04

the Eastern Front against the Russians

4:06

they’re stopping it so there’s real

4:09

opposition to the war inside Ukraine in

4:12

ways that did not exist let’s say 6 or

4:15

12 months ago inside Russia the opposite

4:18

is the case they have no trouble

4:20

recruiting they have no trouble with

4:22

volunteers they have more troops than

4:24

they know what to do with at this point

4:26

in other words they have almost more

4:28

that they can adequately train and equip

4:31

and prepare for operations

4:33

uh than they need but they are still

4:36

taking them in they are bringing them in

4:39

they are outfitting them and they have

4:41

enough forces that they can now rotate

4:43

routinely in and out of the battle zone

4:45

and gradually introduce new formations

4:48

to the battlefront so that they can

4:50

learn how to fight without losing

4:53

heavily in the process these changes are

4:56

very important so when you talk about a

4:57

peace process there is none because the

5:01

United States led by President Trump uh

5:05

in a in a state of complete and utter

5:07

what I would call ignorance and

5:09

arrogance has walked into this war and

5:12

said “I’m going to stop this i’m going

5:15

to force Zalinski and Putin to the table

5:19

as though this were a schoolyard dispute

5:22

and two opposing boys could be made to

5:25

sit in the corner and cooperate with

5:27

each other there is never been an

5:29

understanding in Washington of the

5:30

complexities of this fight how it came

5:33

about what the long-term problems are

5:36

there’s no no comprehension of what the

5:40

Russians continually refer to as the

5:42

root problems nor has there been any

5:45

willingness to address those and

5:48

Russia’s legitimate national security

5:50

interests have been treated with

5:51

complete contempt so now Trump is

5:55

irrelevant the United States is

5:57

irrelevant and he’s essentially thrown

6:00

up his hands walked away and abdicated

6:03

responsibility for the conflict in the

6:05

meantime the people that have always

6:08

wanted this war for the purpose of

6:10

harming Russia who are sitting in the

6:11

Senate in the House in the CIA and

6:14

potentially the Department of Defense or

6:16

State Department they are in charge so

6:20

they are continuing to provide aid and

6:22

continuing to push the war that’s where

6:25

we are yeah I I I agree with that

6:28

assessment the thing is you know I a

6:30

couple of weeks ago I talked to Mikuel

6:32

Fondulenborg he’s a European a German

6:35

MEP in in the European Parliament and he

6:37

was for many many years a a negotiator

6:40

and and and you know involved in also

6:42

the peace process between Iran and Iraq

6:44

and his assessment of the the way that

6:47

things were going was that this is what

6:49

we usually see in peace processes where

6:52

one side makes an offer then the other

6:54

one and the the fighting continues at

6:57

the time and the the big difference now

6:59

to let’s say half a year ago when Mr

7:01

biden was still in office is that we

7:03

actually do have talks happening phone

7:05

calls we have delegations meeting in uh

7:08

in Istanbul and um do you do you hold

7:12

any hopes for this political process

7:16

that’s going hand in hand and you know

7:17

the Russians made it clear they will not

7:20

give a ceasefire and negotiate we will

7:22

negotiate while shooting and only once

7:25

we have an a hard deal the way that the

7:27

the Russians think this will actually

7:29

help solve the overall problem then the

7:32

shooting will end um how do you see this

7:35

parallel track um um uh strategy of the

7:38

Russians evolving

7:41

well as long as Zilinski is in charge in

7:43

Kief and his little band that surrounds

7:46

him uh I see no hope for any sort of

7:49

solution at all because anytime he is

7:52

approached he makes it abundantly clear

7:55

that there will be no recognition of any

7:57

of the territorial gains made by the

7:59

Russians there will be no recognition of

8:02

Crimea uh nothing nothing along those

8:05

lines or is forthcoming from him i think

8:08

as long as he’s there there will be no

8:10

peace and if you listen to Lavough who

8:13

spoke yesterday and read from a paper

8:16

trying to explain what Russia’s

8:18

positions are not that it was new i mean

8:20

we’ve listened to these positions over

8:23

and over and over again for months

8:25

except that nobody in Washington has

8:27

listened but the rest of us have all

8:28

listened to it but he made it very clear

8:31

th this is an impass and as long as this

8:34

regime is in power

8:37

The Russians will not abandon the

8:39

Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine

8:41

effectively Russians in eastern Ukraine

8:43

to the tender mercies of the Ukrainians

8:47

because they know that with this regime

8:49

in charge if they were to do such a

8:50

thing the SBU in other words Ukrainian

8:53

secret police would simply show up and

8:55

start putting bullets in everybody’s

8:57

head and that’s unacceptable in fact you

9:00

know a lot of people don’t understand

9:01

this when the Russians first went into

9:03

eastern Ukraine they were told “Don’t

9:05

shoot at anybody unless you’re being

9:07

shot at uh avoid any confrontation if

9:10

you can talk to people.” And so lots of

9:13

Russians came out and said “Hi we’re so

9:15

glad to see you where have you been

9:17

thank God and what are you going to do?”

9:20

And the answer was “Well we’re going to

9:22

come in here until there’s an agreement

9:24

and then we’re leaving we’re going back

9:26

to Russia.” And and these people said

9:28

“Well if you’re not going to stay get

9:31

the hell out of here because the only

9:33

thing you’re doing is consigning us to a

9:36

firing squad we’ll all be murdered after

9:38

you leave.” Well it took a while for

9:40

that to sink in in Moscow it actually

9:43

took 2 or 3 months and finally Putin

9:45

realized he was dealing with a very

9:47

different situation from the one he

9:49

thought he was confronting well I think

9:51

that still obtains now only it obtains

9:53

with great clarity they’re not giving up

9:56

anything that they currently hold and

9:58

they don’t see any reason why they

9:59

should in fact they’ve now publicized

10:02

what they are calling a buffer zone and

10:05

if you look at the buffer zone that’s

10:06

most everything that’s east of the Neper

10:08

River plus Odessa well gosh what a

10:12

surprise i’ve been waiting for that for

10:14

the last two years well this is this is

10:18

where we’re headed as a minimum and

10:21

nothing is going to change that and our

10:24

friend Zalinski is going to continue to

10:26

talk as though he has a chance to re

10:28

reverse that or a chance to halt this as

10:32

long as we continue to support him and

10:34

we’re continuing to support him so in

10:36

your assessment like you know the idea

10:40

of a buffer zone in my view the the

10:43

Russian optimal case would have been

10:45

entire the entirety of Ukraine to be a

10:47

buffer zone as a neutral state right and

10:50

a big that was the idea and now it seems

10:53

the Russians are giving up on that and

10:54

saying like okay if we can’t have a big

10:56

buffer zone then we want at least a

10:57

military 150 200 kilometer buffer zone

11:01

uh in order to to make sure that these

11:03

most the fastest small rockets can’t

11:05

reach very very quickly right do you

11:08

think that’s the new strategy now saying

11:09

like okay if we don’t get an agreement

11:11

we create a military solution to this uh

11:14

to this problem and it will include a

11:16

buffer zone which we don’t control but

11:19

which is basically a bit like the 38th

11:21

parallel in in the Koreas right well I

11:24

think it’s I think they will control it

11:26

in fact I think before you get the

11:28

so-called buffer zone they will denute

11:31

it of Ukrainian military presence i

11:34

don’t think they’re going to tolerate

11:35

that so I I think ultimately everything

11:38

up to the NPA river will be cleared of

11:40

Ukrainians and then they’re going to go

11:42

into Odessa remember Odessa is the

11:44

principal resupply point for the

11:46

Ukrainian military certainly we fly

11:49

things into Poland we send things

11:50

through Poland into Ukraine but they get

11:53

an enormous amount of support supplies

11:56

everything from ammunition to food

11:58

through Odessa so to ignore Odessa and

12:01

leave that in Ukrainian hands is

12:03

something that I don’t think the

12:04

Russians are going to do i I think we

12:07

have to look at this a little

12:08

differently i think yes they’ve

12:10

concluded that what reason do they have

12:12

to believe anything we say that’s the

12:15

first question look at what happened

12:17

with the Minsk agreements and obviously

12:19

Putin signed on to that and they made a

12:22

fool out of out of President Putin let’s

12:24

face it Putin and Lavough looked foolish

12:26

and stupid they believed what Merkel and

12:30

Obama and subsequently Trump said it was

12:34

all nonsense it never it never had any

12:36

basis in fact so if you’ve already been

12:39

down the road with this Minsk business

12:41

what are you going to believe unless you

12:44

cross the river and expunge this regime

12:47

in Kief and right now I I don’t think

12:50

that they’ve decided to do it but I

12:52

think they’re getting closer with each

12:53

passing day but what they have decided

12:56

is that everything up to the river is

12:58

going to be under Russian control it

13:00

will be denuted of any Ukrainian forces

13:02

now will they ultimately decide uh at

13:05

some point are they prepared to turn

13:07

over say DPRO or something like this to

13:09

the Ukrainians uh I don’t know i I doubt

13:13

it it’s it’s not impossible they’ve

13:16

already looked at Sunumi after the Kursk

13:18

intervention and they said why are we

13:20

why are we uh stopping what what is the

13:24

incentive for us to halt anywhere short

13:27

of the Napper River aren’t we leaving

13:29

ourselves open to future attack if you

13:32

can control everything up to the Neper

13:34

River and someone moves short range or

13:38

intermediate range ballistic missiles

13:40

into western Ukraine you can destroy

13:42

those from eastern Ukraine in other

13:45

words you have the range and the reach

13:48

you have the overhead satellites as well

13:50

as other forms of surveillance and of

13:52

course you’ve got lots of operatives on

13:54

the ground who are going to pick up the

13:56

cell phone and tell you what you want to

13:58

know so the Russians I think are saying

14:01

if we can’t get a truly neutral state

14:04

because we don’t know that we can ever

14:06

trust an agreement that creates a

14:09

neutral state in western Ukraine if we

14:12

occupy and control everything up to the

14:14

river plus Odessa we probably have

14:17

control of the region if we need it in

14:19

other words if we have to attack into

14:21

the west if we have to destroy something

14:23

we see over there if we see things

14:25

develop as we watched in the past then

14:28

we can attack so I think that’s kind of

14:31

the thinking behind the scenes i’m

14:33

speculating i I’m not on on distribution

14:36

from the Russian general staff it would

14:38

make life a lot easier but the the point

14:40

is I think that’s where the mentality is

14:42

right now yeah I I see that too because

14:46

you know on on in some stupid corners of

14:49

mass media the the the the narrative we

14:52

get is still oh my god Putin will will

14:55

occupy all of Ukraine and then he will

14:57

go into Europe i mean the there is no

14:59

military uh uh rationale behind trying

15:02

to take the entirety of Ukraine right

15:03

that would be a poison pill so the

15:05

question is how do you how do you keep

15:07

that that bad part out have your the

15:11

part that you claim and that is filled

15:13

with with Russian people and so on that

15:15

is now under the Russian constitution uh

15:18

safe and then the buffer zone what would

15:20

that what is a buffer zone in in

15:22

military terms i mean is it no man’s

15:24

land or is it like the the jur uh

15:28

Ukrainian but the the Russian military

15:30

has like um absolute uh control over it

15:34

how how how should we imagine that

15:36

buffer zone to what will it be i mean

15:39

the Russians would probably not chase

15:41

away all of the civilian inhabitants of

15:43

that area right no no I don’t think so

15:46

either uh I think they would leave that

15:48

civilian population in place in fact

15:51

probably welcome it if it came back

15:53

they’re not interested in permanent

15:56

hostility with the Ukrainian people per

15:58

se they are very sensitive to what

16:01

happens in Western Ukraine i have had

16:04

Russians tell me some in uniform this is

16:07

within the last few years that they

16:10

thought that the best solution was for

16:12

the Poles to move into Western Ukraine

16:15

because within a very short period of

16:16

time there would be a Polish Ukrainian

16:18

war and then the Russians would have

16:20

less to worry about uh because the

16:23

Ukrainians hate the Poles and Ukrainians

16:26

hate a lot of people not just Russians

16:29

all sorts of people and the Poles have

16:32

had their eye on that area they ruled it

16:35

for hundreds of years obviously but

16:37

they’ve also had bad experiences it was

16:39

ultimately the Kossac rebellions that

16:41

weakened Poland so much that it had to

16:44

ultimately vanish from the map because

16:46

it couldn’t rule itself so you know the

16:48

Russians know the history and you’re

16:50

absolutely right there is no interest in

16:53

going into Western Ukraine under any

16:55

circumstances so that the notion that

16:57

that was ever on anybody’s mind is just

17:00

nonsense in fact I think they would be

17:03

very grateful if the Poles the Slovox

17:08

the Hungarians

17:10

uh the people in Mulava and Romania

17:12

would all sit down and say “Look let’s

17:14

sort this thing out let’s come to some

17:16

sort of agreement.” And I think that

17:18

could happen ultimately but

17:21

unfortunately at the moment we’re making

17:23

that impossible you heard the

17:24

announcement from Chancellor Matz who

17:27

now says there are no restrictions on

17:29

the use of the strike weapons with a

17:31

range of 300 miles or 500 km well you

17:36

know this puts the Russians in a very

17:37

difficult position they made it clear

17:39

this is unacceptable so the question now

17:42

is how much do they put up with

17:44

before Chancellor Merittz wakes up in

17:47

the middle of the night with a missile

17:48

in his bedroom and people don’t think

17:51

that’s possible they’re wrong the

17:53

Russians have just about had it with

17:55

this German government and the Russians

17:58

do not necessarily understand how this

18:00

government could behave as it does when

18:02

the overwhelming majority of Germans

18:04

want nothing to do with this war in

18:07

Ukraine just as the overwhelming

18:08

majority of Poles want nothing to do

18:10

with it uh they’ve been waiting for

18:12

these people to change their governments

18:14

i know that for a fact they’ve said

18:16

clearly you know give these people time

18:18

they’ll put somebody else in power who

18:20

makes sense but it hasn’t happened yet

18:22

the problem is that even if you have 80

18:24

85 90% of the population against the war

18:27

with Russia if you manage to bait Russia

18:30

into firing the first shots then you you

18:33

you will have that war i mean that’s

18:34

what happened to Ukraine that’s how they

18:37

got this mass mobilization and so on

18:39

this is how the the neocon factions

18:41

managed to to get the war going in the

18:44

first place by having the other side

18:46

firing like crossing the first like big

18:50

uh uh uh

18:51

uh border right and and and and moving

18:54

in but the Europeans Colonel you know I

18:57

I listened again to one of these very

18:59

popular talk shows in Germany they still

19:02

to this date argue that oh we cannot

19:06

reward Russia with territories reward

19:09

they use the word reward still after 3

19:11

years they think it’s a reward that

19:14

Russia is winning the war um can you I I

19:17

don’t want to raise your blood pressure

19:18

but can you talk to that a little bit

19:20

where and when what would it take for

19:22

the Europeans especially the Germans for

19:24

this to sink in that this is not a

19:27

reward this is this is the the the the

19:30

bloody outcome of a bloody horrible war

19:32

the way that Berlin was not a reward in

19:34

45 well that’s right no this is a de

19:37

facto recognition of what what exists

19:41

that is not reversible at this stage or

19:43

should be frankly given Russia’s

19:45

interests i think and I have a lot of

19:48

friends in Germany and I do talk to them

19:49

as you know and they tell me there has

19:52

been a sea change in public opinion in

19:55

Germany that first of all the the

19:57

Germans are sick of all the foreigners

19:59

they have in their country not just

20:02

Muslims uh they’re also sick of the

20:04

Ukrainians who are in Germany just as

20:07

the Poles are sick of the three million

20:09

Ukrainians in their country uh a lot of

20:11

people don’t know it but this is an

20:13

interesting interesting side when the

20:16

Ukrainians in Poland were asked what

20:19

language they wanted their children to

20:20

be instructed in they all said Russian

20:25

uh so you know the the Germans are

20:28

looking at this and the average German

20:30

on the street is we’re we’re kind of fed

20:32

up and disgusted with this now what

20:34

you’re saying is that if Matt ends up

20:37

with a missile in his bedroom that the

20:39

entire German nation is going to

20:41

suddenly mobilize equip and march east

20:44

no I don’t see it first of all these

20:47

military establishments in in Europe

20:50

particularly in Western Europe are so

20:52

backward they are so complacent their

20:56

discipline is so poor it would take a

20:58

decade to recover from the current state

21:01

of of their armed forces now they can

21:04

certainly build missiles and rockets but

21:06

then again you’re just exchanging with

21:08

the Russians look at the size of Russia

21:11

look at the size of Germany that’s going

21:12

to be a short exchange i I don’t see the

21:15

Germans doing that i think the Germans

21:17

are increasingly dissatisfied with Matts

21:21

and and everybody else and the

21:23

interesting thing is that this has been

21:25

wonderful for the alternative futon you

21:28

know the the AFD has benefited

21:30

enormously from it but they’re also

21:32

continually excluded from the policy

21:34

process they’re kept out of everything

21:37

so if you look at this it’s kind of uh

21:41

national socialism in reverse you know

21:44

you’ve got this dictatorial regime in

21:47

Berlin that wants to pursue policies

21:49

that are fundamentally antithetical to

21:51

the interest of the German nation and

21:53

they remain in power and the one party

21:56

that is absolutely opposed to war with

21:58

Russia it’s opposed to

22:01

de-industrialization it’s imposed to the

22:03

destruction of the German economy and it

22:05

has recognized the futility and

22:07

stupidity of trying to build an armed

22:09

forces an armed force right now to fight

22:12

Russia

22:13

uh but they can’t get into the policym

22:15

process now will this last forever no I

22:17

don’t think so and I think what will

22:20

happen is they will eventually gain

22:22

power but in the meantime if the German

22:25

people uh have any say in anything and I

22:28

think they would in in the case of going

22:30

to war with Russia they would oppose it

22:32

especially since we’ve made it clear and

22:35

this is the other strange phenomenon you

22:38

have on the one hand Trump adopting the

22:41

Bellose language make making these

22:43

statements that have no bearing on

22:44

reality things that he rejected 120 days

22:48

ago 180 days ago he wouldn’t have said

22:50

any of them now he’s saying them

22:52

essentially repeating this sort of

22:54

neocon globalist narrative about Russia

22:58

he’s also saying he wants to get out of

23:00

Germany he wants to withdraw forces from

23:03

Germany well if you’re a German and you

23:06

say “Well the Americans the Americans

23:08

want to get out.” Do you think he’s

23:10

serious about that i I just can’t

23:12

imagine it you think he’s serious look

23:15

one of the thing in private conversation

23:17

with him in November of

23:20

2020 he made it abundantly clear that he

23:23

was deadly serious and that wasn’t the

23:25

first time he has long felt that the

23:28

Europeans should be their own first

23:30

responders president Trump is not not a

23:33

fool he understands just as Eisenhower

23:35

did in the 1950s there will be no new

23:38

Normandy invasion it’s not going to

23:41

happen we’re not coming back with

23:43

millions of troops we can’t do it the

23:46

technology of warfare has changed and if

23:49

we’re going to send anything to anybody

23:51

that’s meaningful it has to go by sea

23:55

and today any convoy that crosses the

23:58

Atlantic or the Pacific with large

24:00

quantities of troops and material is

24:02

going to be identified and ultimately

24:04

destroyed either by groundbased or air

24:07

launched precision missile strikes or by

24:09

submarines so it’s over and he knows

24:12

it’s over the Europeans are in denial

24:16

they don’t want to accept that but

24:17

they’ve got to come to terms with it hey

*

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